Pastor Paul

Excerpts from on interview of Pastor Paul Leavens on June 6, 2002. Interviewer was Eileen Demerath.

Eileen:

Here's a two part obvious first question, Pastor Paul, Why did you become a pastor, and, how did you end up in Lindsay?

Pastor Paul:

(Clearing his throat softly) That's sort of a roundabout story and kind of a long one.

Eileen:

We've got time.

Pastor Paul:

Well, both my Father and my Grandfather were pastors. I grew up in a strong Christian family. Then came the sixties and college for me. I entered higher education with the personal premise that I could discover through learning that the Bible and those who bound their lives by it were not only unreasonable but in fact, foolish. I enjoyed the "thrust and party" of debate and discussion on the subject.

Eileen:

How did your parents feel about that?

Pastor Paul:

(Pausing) I expect that it hurt, frustrated, and worried them.

Eileen:

Drugs? Alcohol?

Pastor Paul:

No that was never a part of my rebellion.

Eileen:

Go on.

Pastor Paul:

I was in the throes of my intellectual exploration during the 60's as I mentioned before and being a Seminary Student in the 60's was an interesting irony. It was cool not to be connected. I was questioning everything, especially spiritual matters along with everyone else. I did not feel that I was accountable to the dorm rules or the mandatory chapel attendance policy.

Eileen:

So .... ?

Pastor Paul:

(Looking down, with a small self conscious grin) Well, when I went to register for my fourth and final year I was informed at the registrar's office I would not be allowed to attend.

Eileen:

Wow, I'll bet your mom and dad were happy with you.

Pastor Paul:

You know, I think I was quite possible relieved, but you're right, I had to go home to my parents to Mishawaka, Indiana. I took a job cleaning furnaces, about as far away from pie in the sky intellectualizing as you could get. I was forced to learn accountability.

Eileen:

Go on.

Pastor Paul:

My family moved to Norco, California. I registered at a college again. This time Pacific Christ College. I did not explain to them my previous educational fiasco, in fact, I started all over, no transcripts, no records.

Eileen:

Were you a good student?

Pastor Paul:

(Thinking) I would say I was an average student. I excelled in the courses I enjoyed the most which were philosophy. At some point my past was discovered but that actually forced me to send for my transcripts and accelerated my standing. I completed a degree in Sacred Literature which was a five year program at that school. I was very sure that I wanted to preach and took a job while I was still a student in a church in East Los Angeles. It was in a very tough neighborhood, gangs, drugs, violence. Remarkably, I was never a victim, although I witnessed a lot of bad things. I was able to actually get academic credit for this position - which by the way nobody else wanted. I stayed there for two years. I was supervised by faculty. There was one professor that I needed to pass a class from that really had it in for me. He said I would not graduate and made it a personal mission to accomplish that goal. He said I was not structured enough and that I couldn't spell. (Laughing).

Eileen:

How did you resolve it?

Pastor Paul:

There was another professor that I am still very close to now that was a mentor to me. He let me "borrow" his Ph.D.. thesis to turn in, when the other Prof marked it junk, my friend stepped in and went to the administration with me. The school allowed me to complete my needed credits on independent study.

Eileen:

What happened after that?

Pastor Paul:

I was recruited by a church in Truman, Minnesota, population 900. It was a 100 year old nondenominational church.

Eileen:

Wasn't that a little of a culture shock going from East LA to booneyville, Minnesota?

Pastor Paul:

(Hearty laugh) Yes I guess it was, the really nice thing was the sense of community. The difficult part was that it could be a little claustrophobic. I was there for five years and had kept up with a singing group called the Gospel Lads from college and we would frequently travel to different areas and do revivals.

Eileen:

Then where did you go?

Pastor Paul:

I was recruited by a group of people to found a church in Apple Valley, Minnesota. I learned a lot there, we had to start from the ground up. We first met in homes, then purchased property, that took a lot of administrative work. It grew and became a really big church. The community sort of grew around it. It's still there and I think has around 500 members.

Eileen:

What happened to make you leave? Pastor Paul: (Long pause) After pastoring there for five years my marriage broke up. My wife left. Very shortly thereafter I was terminated, no notice, no severance, and no place to live since the house belonged to the church. I had no money so I took a job at a company called Brockway. They made cardboard boxes for beer makers. I worked nights.

Eileen:

I'd say you were a little overeducated for your position, were you a good box-maker?

Pastor Paul:

(Laughs, still smiling) Yes, I agree was probably the most highly educated box maker they'd ever employed. I worked there for five years till the factory closed and was promoted several times, I became a supervisor. I also kept up my license preached for free, performed weddings, baptisms, funerals. One of my biggest regrets in life was my disillusionment with the church at that time and my expression of that to the people I worked with.

Eileen:

OK now for the happy ending, how'd you get here?

Pastor Paul:

My parents were in living in Corona yet. My sister Natalie had been acting as a recruiting agent unbeknownst to me. She was sending out my resume to available positions and then would write to me. I threw them all away. I was extremely bitter. She also sent me tickets to come home which Robin and I did. I was still preaching but was vehemently opposed to working as one again. I agreed to come and preach in Lindsay. There were exactly 12 people there. I was very frank. I said "I don't preach the King James Bible, I'm a single parent, and I will only agree to try this position if 100% of you vote yes. Looking back I see it as a divine appointment, I had nowhere to go, and there was no one who wanted to come here. I've actually had other job offers since then but I believe that this is where I am supposed to be.

Eileen:

Wow, talk about a long and winding trail. Here's another question, tell me about your philosophy on the function of church in community.

Pastor Paul:

Anyone in this church will tell you that I frequently say the church exists for those people that are not yet members and that everyone member is a pastor. I also believe that the church functions much like a hospital, people come, get mended and often move on. I personally believe community involvement is important, I have been and am still involved in Ministerial Association, was on the Hospital Board, and was elected to City Council, I also frequently conduct tours in Lindsay for groups to learn about and view the murals.

Eileen:

Didn't I read that you have earned the right to use a Ph.D.. behind your name? You don't advertise that.

Pastor Paul:

Yes, I did earn my Ph.D. from Lake Charles Bible College. They actually contacted me and stated that they had a particular program for pastors that had been at the same church for more than 10 years. (Long pause) I had to complete a lot of course work, write four thesis, and I also got credit for my years of experience and the most difficult part for me to understand is that, (pauses, continues with difficulty, eyes begin to water) someone else, I don't even know who, paid the bill. (More tears). (Clears throat) I don't use the title very much because I don't want to intimidate some who may think their situation can't be understood by a Ph.D.. Many of my colleagues call getting a higher degree "good for your career". I don't think I am interested in doing what is good for my career, I'm interested in being faithful to the ministry God has placed before me. Since finishing the Ph.D.. I have actually had offers for employment.

Eileen:

You're not thinking of leaving us are you?

Pastor Paul:

No, not at all. I believe this is where God wants me to be. Besides, if I was to move it would mean uprooting Luana and she would wither without her animals, country home, family and friends around her.

Eileen:

I'm glad you brought up Luana, she really is a special person.

Pastor Paul:

Yes, she really is, I often tell the congregation that I am fortunate to live with my pastor. I think Luana has taught me more about practical Christianity than all my academia and professional experience. I know you have heard me say this in church but I'll mention it again. When I am discouraged, Luana builds me up like nobody can. When I get to thinking too much of myself, she knocks me down like no one else can. (Laughs) She is a wise woman that has a gift for sorting through the fluff and picking out what the really important issues are in a situation.

Eileen:

It sounds like Luana is part of how you recharge, what else helps you do that?

Pastor Paul:

One thing I have done since I was a child is attend the North American Christian Convention. I get the opportunity to learn, discuss, and catch up with a lot of people I have known for a long time. I went to my first one at age two. Around 5000 churches are represented every year, there is worship, workshops, updates, and entertainment.

Eileen:

That's really all the information I was looking for today. You don't much like talking about yourself do you?

Pastor Paul:

It's difficult for me.

Eileen:

I can tell. Thanks for your time and I want you to know I appreciate you and your ministry in this community.

Pastor Paul:

Your welcome, thanks for spending your time on this.